Hi, I purchased your book awhile back but can’t seem to find this piece of information:
I am rowing a mixed double with my girlfriend who is very small. (5′2″ 110lb coxswain) she is having trouble getting the rate up and I’m pretty sure its the loading on her oars. What do you think her loading should be? Mine is 86.5 inboard and 290 something length. Her last 2k was around an 8:30. Thanks for the help.
A) My Response: Hi Brett. I’m surprised that she (as a coxswain) is not blaming you for the issues!! (Ahem, just kidding. . . )
Per the rigging, I would suggest that if the oars are NOT adjustable that you give her about 1cm more of inboard and about the same on the span. If the oars ARE adjustable then I would shorten the oars about 1 cm, keeping the inboard the same. And then test. And test, and test.
The big thing here would be to test (did I mention that already?), and do changes slow and methodically.
Q) Rick wrote:
I’m a sculler, who’s always been told to set my foot stretchers so that when I sit straight up, the oar handles, if butted together would meet my sternum. It’s been explained that further back and you tend to pull through too much. Closer and you don’t have the room to clear at the finish. That’s worked fine, until I’ve started to work with my son, who is 6′7″. Trying to do that with my Hudson single… his shins hit the rigger. Am I using the right approach? If so… what am I missing?
A) My Response: Rick, I would tend to think your son is over-compressing at the catch, and he might be doing it to compensate for not enough work through the pin. I would measure the distance from a plane cutting across the sternward stops of the track to a plane that goes through the pin. It should be “0” or even less. Go to the numbers page to find out how to measure it and to see what the numbers should be. Measure away and then follow up and let us know what you’ve got.
Q) Jack wrote:
Hi Mike, I have recently subscribed to your email newsletter. I row in New Zealand at a school called Christ’s College we finished last season on a high note coming second at the national’s regatta in the under 16 division (15 year olds) 8+. We finished with a time of 6:09.44.
I was wondering if you could help me out with a question thats been burning in my mind for quite some time now. How would our time (6:09.44) stack up against American crews of roughly the same age? I know that there are always variables involved, such as conditions, but I am just looking for a general idea. Could you please help me?
Welcome Jack, and great to hear of your success. To find out more about your time I’m going to suggest that you go to Rowing Illustrated and chime in on one of the forums there. Lot’s of smart people, with lots of opinions. They should be able to help you. Also, look up USRowing’s results for summer racing. More info there.
Hi Mike – love your site and your book – one question I can’t seem to find the answer to… What is the “M” value of CII Fat Smoothie sweep oars? Look forward to the answer…
Mike is talking about the leverage formula that I use to keep track of the load of a specific rig. I discuss it in detail in several places, but basically here is the formula:
[(L-I)-B/M]/S
In the equation L= oar length, I= inboard, B= blade length, M is a variable, S is the spread, and B/M togther represent where the center of pressure is on the blade.
Two things of importance here:
Measurements are metric
Do not use this formula to compare between different blade shapes, just between oars with the same blade shape.
The M that reader Mike refers to helps find the approximate center of the oar. The number that I use is, for rectangle shaped oars (or close to it) 2 (for 1/2 the length of the blade), and 3 (for 1/3 for the length of the blade) for macons. I am not sure what I would use for something like a delta, I would have to measure it first, or talk to the maker.
In this case, a for CII Fat Smoothie that is 52 centimeters long, the M would be 2.
There is debate as to whether this number, and in fact the formula, have value. I’ve found it to be helpful for me in keep track of things, although I strongly caution again anyone to use it to compare different blade shapes.
What do you use to keep track of your leverage/load?
Heel cup height is one of those measurements that rowers tend not to think about unless they are uncomfortable—usually when they feel that they cannot get good compression at the catch.
However long before comfort comes into play, heel cup height plays a signifcant role in how efficent a rower is.
This short video shows how to measure the height. A few simple steps and you have it.
To get an idea if your height is within a range good for you, check the numbers page. And from there do some fine tuning.
Find this post helpful? If so (or if not) please use the rating below to let me know.
I received this question the other day from Casandra.
Hi Mike: I am 2 seat in a lightweight women’s eight…but we have to row in a men’s boats. This is a really basic question; How do we determine where our foot stretchers should be positioned?
Thanks for the question Casandra. Let’s try a detailed view first, then a quick possible solution.
For Really Novice Rowers (Really novice)
For those rowers just starting out, placement of the footstretcher can be a great teaching tool. Often coaches will put the stretchers at a point where the rowers can use the track’s sternmost stops as a teaching device, so that they don’t over- or under-compress. The feet are placed so that the rowers will almost hit the stops just at the catch. If they go too far, wham, and they stop. For good or for bad, it does help teach.
For Rowers Looking For Comfort
In the past many rower’s calves really suffered greatly from the effect of either the seat track or boat deck digging into them at the end of each stroke. One method of relief was for the rower to move the footstretcher greatly stern-ward, to give the legs more room at the end of the stroke. More room, less digging into the calves. Newer shells with adjustable tracks usually don’t present this problem.
Rowers Looking For Speed
More experienced rowers, which it sounds like that might be you, are looking for something different. They are looking for speed. They want to place the stretchers in the correct position to maximize the energy that is put into the oar.
And it is important where they are placed. The reason being is that placement is about the distance the hip of the rower is located, at the catch, in reference to the pin. And the faster the boat, then the further through the pin (greater the distance that the hips are stern-ward).
Rowers looking for speed will tend to place their footstretchers according to either
shin angle to water’s surface
work through
catch length
catch angle
Each of those methods become more involved in terms of the mechanics of determining the correct placement of the stretchers.
Down and Dirty
So, with all that written, what should you do?
If you are sharing the boat with a men’s team, or any other group, then I would suggest that you place the footstretchers in a position where your shins are just shy of perpendicular to the water, at the catch. That might be about the best you can expect when sharing a boat, unless it is rigged specifically for you.
If you are not sharing the boat, it is just your team in it, then I suggest that the boat be rigged off of leverage numbers picked for your group. (You can find suggestions here.) From there use work through. Probably for lightweight women you may be looking at a range of 6 to 10 cms, as measured by the method on my numbers page.
Once you have set the feet, do some testing. Have a SpeedCoach? Great, test away. If not, then use a stop watch.
Adjust, test, readjust until satisfied.
(If you are interested in catch length and catch angle I cover those in my book, and the details are probably too lengthy for a blog post.)
Peter sent this note along about an upcoming adventure:
How’s it going Mike!
I’m rowing across the Atlantic this winter in the following boat which is an ocean rowing boat with 8 sweep rowing positions – 4 on port, 4 on starboard. As one of the only river rowing people on the crew, the skipper has asked me to look at the rigging, I’m going to base the span on the span for a racing 8 (i.e. an Empacher). what do you think? can you help me on this?
Hey Peter:
First off, you’re nuts. Why would anyone want to row away from a perfectly good continent?
Second, good for you. Sounds like a cool thing to do (for you, not for me).
Recently James, from New Zealand, submitted this question:
I am interested in finding out the best way to set a crew up in the boat. I have for a long time measured back from the line of work a set distance and had all the crew set their back axel to this – to help with different length of legs etc. But now I am reading more and more about the need for a large catch angle. So, what is the best way to set the archs so everyone is rowing the same? Should I set an angle at the catch, but will this mean different finish lengths? Set it at the back and coach the catch length? What effect does Cord Length have?
First, thanks James for your question. It is a good one, that certainly should be of interest to anyone who wants to generate maximum hull speed for their boat, regardless of sweep or sculling.
Second, it would probably help to define some of terms, to make sure that we are talking about the same things (as you know, terms in rowing can be rather, er, strange.) You can find more rowing terms here.
The catch angle is the angle of the oar, at the catch, to a perpendicular line that runs down the middle of the shell. Catch length is a simple way to measure the catch angle, and is often used to really describe the same thing, from a non-angular perspective. The arch, or arc that you mentioned describes the theoretical track that the oar makes through the water. (I say theoretical because the blade really doesn’t move more than a small distance through the water, unlike the butt of the oarhandle which does make an arc.
The last term, cord length, is one seldom used here in the US. Basically it is the distance from the end of one point of the arc to another. It is not relevant to outside arc (how the blade travels through the water—because it doesn’t). Instead it is more relevant to the inside arc—specifically the distance of the inside arc. You might find this post on Oarsport helpful.
Why Should You Care
For beginners coaches and Riggers (first and second Dimensional) this may all seem like hoopla. What difference does this make? A reasonable question. And a reasonable answer would be . . .”Speed.” It is all about speed.
Beginners, don’t worry about all the technically stuff here. It really boils down to this—where should I set my footstretchers? With that noted, zip to the end, and I’ll cover it there.
For you folks with more rigging under your belt, the reason you should care is still speed, but knowing how this works and all fits together will give you the tools to get more speed. The old ‘Teach a person to fish” saying applies here.
So how is all this information going to help you become a better Rigger? My rigging greatly improved when I realized most of the major adjustments I did when I rigged had an effect on the arcs. As soon as I grasped this concept, everything about rigging seemed to fall into place and I made the step from Second-Dimensional to Third-Dimensional Rigger.
Things Have Changed
There is not much change that has happened in rowing, or rigging, over the years but one place of some change has been track length. Used to be that rowers were concerned about running out of track, and hitting one or both ends. No more, in the last few years boat builders have been putting longer tracks into the boats, much longer than most rowers would ever use.
Another change I’ve noticed in the US is that the focus seems to be placed on the catch, and not as much on the finish. I know most of my peers rig to empahsize the catch, and the finish is a secondary thought. Don’t know if it is better or not, but that is what we seem to be doing.
So What Should I Do?
If the focus is all about speed what to do? I suggest:
focus on the catch angle
measure the catch angle by using catch length—or footstretcher placement
pay attention to the inside arc
pay no attention to the outside arc
accept a compromise between catch length vs finish length
How Do You Measure Catch Length/Angle
In a future post I will show how to measure the catch length and angle. Or you can read about it in my book, Nuts and Bolts Guide to Rigging. In the meantime, if you are looking for a solution, you can get number suggestions here. Then set your tracks. And then set your footstretchers so that the seat wheels almost touch the front stops at the catch.
I hope that this is a productive start. Readers, send your thoughts along for James.
When the seasons change, so should your rigging numbers.
The *seasons* I’m referring to is the Head Race and Sprint Race seasons. Those two seasons require that you use different rigging numbers.
Here’s why.
The approximate hull speed of your boat determines the range of rigging numbers you should use for your leverage measurements. Here are the guidelines:
The slower the speed of a boat, the lighter the leverage
The faster the speed of a boat, the tighter the leverage
In other words, the slower the hull, the better gearing you need.
Look at it from a biking perspective. If you’re racing a 15-speed bike and are on a slight downhill, at maximum speed, you’re going to be in the highest gear possible so you can keep moving the bike. When you’re going uphill, you would downshift, so you can be more efficient.
The same needs to happen in terms of rowing.
For instance, let’s take two boats, a men’s eight racing a Head Race (Fall season), and a men’s eight racing a Sprint Race (Spring season).
The Head Race eight is usually going to be moving slower than the Sprint boat. Longer race, lower rating, rower’s conditioning not as good in Fall as in the Spring.
So what I suggest is that you start with lighter numbers in the Fall, and as the year progresses into the Spring season, you increase the leverage (make it feel heavier for the rowers).
Here are a few sample numbers (assuming the same length of oar):
BEGINNING OF FALL SEASON
Spread: 84.5 cm.
Inboard: 114.5 cm.
END OF SPRING SEASON
Spread: 83.0
Inboard: 113.5
And to make this change, do it gradually, over the course of several changes (making each change about .3 cms at a time).
To find your Head Race rigging numbers try this. Locate the leverage numbers that you want to use at the end of the Sprint season.
Let’s say for example, in a women’s eight the spread you want to have 84.2 cm, your inboard would be 114 cm. Working backwards from that in a series of steps, you will want to increase those numbers.
What I do is to look at my sprint numbers and will start with almost a full centimeter and a half more in the beginning of Fall. Right at the end of the Fall, when the boat is moving a little faster, I will tighten up the leverage, about .3 centimeters, going from 85.5 to 85.2. Then when the athletes return to row in February that is the leverage we use.
Then over the course of the Spring we will reduce that leverage two or three times more depending on the speed of the boat (remembering that the faster the boat, the less amount of leverage we have).
Okay, a lot of numbers and hopefully thought provoking stuff there. Hope you find it helpful.
When one is big, and the other is small, what should you do?
I just recently received the following email from Patrick, about rigging for different size rowers.
Hi Mike,
I’m wondering, I’m trying to rig a double up for my partner and myself to race in. I’m 5′11” and he’s somewhere around 6′4”. We’re rowing in a Wintech double so the adjustments have been pretty easy so far.
I raised my seat to its highest potential and moved my stretchers about 1/2 in up, but our angles are still off, people have been telling me to move my pins in and his pins out but I am not sure how much is too much or how much is enough.
Was wondering if you could give me some insight on this. Hope to hear from you soon.
Patrick brings up one of the most frequently asked questions I get from rowers who really want to get the most from their equipment: “What if I am a different size from my partner, what can I/we do?” This is not an easy one to answer. However there are some steps he can take to find a solution that may work for you.
Mike Davenport is a top-level instructor and the primary educational consultant for USRowing. Now retired from the U.S. National Rowing Team, he enjoys providing consultation, on-site clinics, teaching workshops and coaching athletes and other coaches about rigging and rowing.
